How do you know when you are in "hot water?"

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The link above leads you to a great article by Peggy Noonan in the WSJ that a friend shared on FB.

After reading it I was reminded of something I'd read in book Team of Rivals about Abraham Lincoln.  In it was a quote from Seward that stated:

There are two antagonistical elements of Society in America, Freedom and Slavery.  Freedom is in harmony with our system of government and with the spirit of the age, and is therefore, passive and quiescent.  Slavery is in conflict with that system, with justice, and with humanity and is therefore organized, defensive, active and perpetually aggressive.  Free labor demands universal suffrage and widespread diffusion of knowledge.  The slave-based system by contrast cherishes ignorance because it is the only security for oppression.  Sectional conflict, Seward warned, would inevitably arise from these two intrinsically different economic systems, which were producing dangerously divergent cultures, values, and assumptions. (page 133)

I believe there are two intrinsically different economic systems at odds with each other in this country today.  So I've read a number of books so that I can better understand the values and assumptions of each.  I am, at present, reading the Federalist Papers and The Road to Serfdom.  It has been thought-provoking to say the least.

I had a great discussion with someone on FB today in regard to a James Madison quote that was posted:
If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money and will promote the General Welfare, the government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.

A friend responded that is was remarkable that so many understood the need for sustainable agriculture, sustainable energy, etc. that we cannot also get our minds around the need for sustainable federal and state governments that operate within the limits of the constitutional structure and practical realities.

I then paused for a moment....wishing I had said that :-)  I think I will buy that t-shirt that says:  "Reduce your Government Footprint."  :-)

Well, the discussion turned to the most recent town hall exchange between the poster boy for term limits, Fortney Pete Stark and one of his constituents.  During the exchange the woman makes a point about making healthcare a "right" then requires someone to provide that service and she likened it with "slavery" to compel someone to provide that service.

The response was a good one; that people have to be very careful with the language they use to avoid being trivialized and pointed out that Congress had not created a constitutional right for healthcare....and to posit a possible chain of events from the healthcare bill to compulsory labor is over-reaching to an almost silly extent.  (I was really enjoying this discussion because he was being reasonable, polite, and he didn't say it was "stupid" to present such possibilities.  Silly I can live with, when the discussion deteriorates to "stupid" it ends all debate.)


I expressed agreement with his position but added a couple of links for consideration:
One from the Huffington Post by Senator Bernie Sanders
and
One from townhall.com by Walter Williams
Both discuss the concept of healthcare as a "right" from different viewpoints.
I also added that the Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the United Nations also needed to be considered. I stated that, at this point, perhaps a formal constitutional right did not even matter.

He responded to the articles commenting, appropriately, that both individuals were spinning their own kind of rhetoric.  I'd be interested in others' opinions on these too.

I ended the discussion with a heartfelt thanks for the reasoned and civil discussion.  We all benefit from debate.  Not being sure of the etiquette in this situation I have not included the names of my FB friends.   Perhaps if they appear regularly I will get their informed consent to include their identity :-)

Finally, in closing I leave you with another Seward quote:
After his friends took offense when he gave a glowing eulogy for political rivals he said:
"They (his friends) cannot see how much of the misery of human life is derived from the indulgence of wrath."

All I can say to that is AMEN!